SHAW (Canada) USER(s) WITH MASSIVE PING VENT since 3.0? - Page 3

PhantomSr · 03-01-2008, 02:20 AM

Just finished with every other thread on here and it looks like it's pretty obvious what the issue is and it's rather funny that it's popping up slowing all over and that after hearing about this over and over they keep creating the same issue. The problem with large ISP's is that the process for installing/updating is written by some guy at a desk that never sees the real world implementation. The Guy who sets it all up doesn't use is or think for himself, just copies what he was given. The people troubleshooting the device don't talk to the customers, and the people you talk to when you call in don't have a clue about any of the hardware.

So here's what happens. You call with a problem.. you get some BS answer since the connection is working fine for everything but vent. Help desk guy goes on with his day and forgets you called. Repeat this bout 100 times a day. One of the analysts will clue in that he's heard about issues with vent a lot lately and ask higher up about it. It might then get to the next level that can look at the hardware. If they actually believe the help desk knows anything about IP traffic, they might look at it. If they do find the issue, they aren't authorized to change it anyway without going to the network planners to find out what kind of impact this will have on the network. Then they have to come up with a plan to make the necessary changes, analyze disruption caused by making the changes, and design a rollback plan if the changes fail or cause issues. Then this will get passed back to the guys who can make the changes and they'll plan to do it when impact is the smallest.

Process is in place for a reason but it sure is a pain when it's something that affects you. And it drives everyone in the chain nuts to since it's quite likely a change that can be made by typing one or two lines into the traffic policies.

h8myboss · 03-06-2008, 08:08 PM

I am here in Vancouver, B.C., use Shaw, and yes, ever since the switch to 3.0, I have been getting MASSIVE lag spikes in Vent, and only with Vent >> my gaming seems to be fine, which I am awful thankful for.

Strange though, the problem only occurs when I am wired thru this fancy D-Link router. When I hardwire straight to the modem, the lag spikes stop and everything is fine.

I have even gone into the router set up thingy (by entering an IP into the address bar of my browser), and checked to make sure everything was secure and the wireless function was turned off. Past that, I am too noobish to make any other changes in the router set up.

This problem is very serious for me, because I lead a successful adult orientated gaming family of about 60 people, and they rely on me to get on every night to organize our events and discuss issues. It's a moral dampener too >> it really sucks not being able to talk with them after 6 years of being able to talk with everyone every night.

I feel like an idiot after discovering this thread, because I have been blaming the lag on my roomie's router, and it's caused an assload of tension between us.

I am emailing Shaw right now to report this issue. Hopefully they will take the hint that LOTS of gamers are having the same problem, get off their fat butts and do something about it, not just play the "oh it's not a problem on our end" card.

H8MyBoss*
Lords Of Death
An FPS Gaming Family

MegaHz · 03-06-2008, 11:03 PM

not sure if it would make a difference, but ventrilo is not setting its packets as high priority, so if any QOS is being run on the packets (100% of isps run some type) then ventrilo packets are being held up to let other traffic that is marked as high priority go first (any other voip packets etc etc)

Code:

No.     Time        Source                Destination           Protocol Info
      3 0.271701    192.168.4.120         208.100.29.217        TCP      pdrncs > myblast [PSH, ACK] Seq=15 Ack=1 Win=17408 [TCP CHECKSUM INCORRECT] Len=34

Frame 3 (88 bytes on wire, 88 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Giga-Byt_55:90:84 (00:1a:4d:55:90:84), Dst: D-Link_ce:3f:17 (00:17:9a:ce:3f:17)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.4.120 (192.168.4.120), Dst: 208.100.29.217 (208.100.29.217)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: pdrncs (3299), Dst Port: myblast (3795), Seq: 15, Ack: 1, Len: 34
    Source port: pdrncs (3299)
    Destination port: myblast (3795)
    Sequence number: 15    (relative sequence number)
    [Next sequence number: 49    (relative sequence number)]
    Acknowledgement number: 1    (relative ack number)
    Header length: 20 bytes
    Flags: 0x18 (PSH, ACK)
        0... .... = Congestion Window Reduced (CWR): Not set
        .0.. .... = ECN-Echo: Not set
        ..0. .... = Urgent: Not set
        ...1 .... = Acknowledgment: Set
        .... 1... = Push: Set
        .... .0.. = Reset: Not set
        .... ..0. = Syn: Not set
        .... ...0 = Fin: Not set
    Window size: 17408
    Checksum: 0xb39a [incorrect, should be 0xa11e (maybe caused by "TCP checksum offload"?)]
    [SEQ/ACK analysis]
        [This is an ACK to the segment in frame: 2]
        [The RTT to ACK the segment was: 0.208296000 seconds]
Data (34 bytes)

0000  00 20 50 4d 11 e3 11 10 0a 04 f8 04 ed e3 23 14   . PM..........#.
0010  28 0b de 34 11 f6 22 e5 40 03 2e 13 15 17 5e da   (..4..".@.....^.
0020  3a f4

:.

wadesworld · 03-07-2008, 01:30 AM

ISP's almost always reclassify all customer traffic as normal priority (except peer-to-peer traffic, which gets low) when it comes into the network, unless they're a business customer paying a high rate for priority.

If they didn't, every Torrent user out there would mark all their traffic as high priority.

Rukhtoi · 03-08-2008, 07:08 AM

I live in Red Deer, Alberta, and am having the same problems, my latency jumps all over the place and well because of it i might as well not use it, my ping has been as high as 32509

h8myboss · 03-08-2008, 02:24 PM

Ok I got a response back from Shaw, and it is indeed the bit torrent programs that are messing with vent. Of course, Shaw insists that it is still something that need to be addressed on your end:

Quote:

Hello

Thank you for contacting Shaw Internet technical support.

We have been investigating this situation for some time, and the
conclusion to which we have come, with a significant amount of feedback
from our customers, has been that the use of BitTorrent and Ventrilo on
the same IP address seems to cause problems with Ventrilo packets on our
network. The solution appears to be to avoid the use of BitTorrent on
the same IP as is being used with Ventrilo. So what you could do is
disable BitTorrent on any machines on your IP, and change your IP
address by changing your MAC address. Once this has been done, you
should find that Ventrilo works normally again. We are still
investigating in order to determine the cause of the problem, and a more
permanent solution, but in the interim, this should work. We have
received a number of messages from users indicating that after disabling
BitTorrent and changing their IP addresses, Ventrilo's performance
returned to normal. We do apologise for any inconvenience while we work
to resolve this issue.

Hope this helps everyone. I myself do not use bit torrent programs, but I have two downloading whores of roomies who are CONSTANTLY DL'ing stuff 24/7. When I showed them the email from Shaw, they finally got why I was always so pissed off at them. But, of course, they don't give two sh!ts and will continue to be online leeches.

Now I have to shell out more money per month to get my own line in, which sucks because I was here before these two clowns, and I was the guy that got Shaw Extreme hooked up in this house.

I hate ignorant people, lol!

Moondog · 03-22-2008, 08:22 PM

Too bad I didn't see this post initially I could of stated what shaw was going to say. I have experienced this not with Ventrilo but with other programs. A few weeks ago I was even at work and the boss had left his torrent downloader on, the entire day it was so slow even FTP and the Internet were slowed down. I know I basically only download files when I am away from my computer.

Shaw doesn't classify every packet as torrent or non torrent, so if they suspect you of downloading them your entire connection is gonna suck.

Things that will increase your ping are:

- Multiple users sharing same IP
- Being on wireless
- Downloading
- ISP routing issues

Just to expand on ISP routing issues, some times a 3rd party ISP is to blame for lag. Recently one of my websites hosted in phoenix was very laggy. Upon inspection I noticed Shaw had a fine ping, as did the hosting facility. There was a third company in the middle shaw was routing too that was experiencing problems. Took about a month to correct as well.

PhatKi · 05-04-2008, 09:35 PM

I live in the Red Deer area and have been experiencing bizarre lag spikes and such after i download torrents and what not. This s really a frustrating thing when vent locks up and you hear 5 minutes of conversation at once.

MegaHz · 05-05-2008, 01:54 AM

It is a problem with traffic shaping equipment shaw is using and something Ventrilo changed about their packets in version 3. The Ventrilo 3 packet signature is looking like, and there for being treated as peer to peer traffic. if you get a hold of a vent 2 client and server and run it along side a vent 3 cient and server (same host location, same client location), you get no ping issues on the 2 server while the 3 server spikes to 32000 ping.

If you contact shaw, ask them to escalate the issue up, so they can collect information on who all is having the problem. make sure someone in the call center didn't decide that there is nothing they can do to fix the issue and not even let a network engineer look at it. ask them to escalate it up.

Mox1972 · 06-13-2008, 08:40 PM

I have a dumb question. Do all of you use routers? This is so frustrating I have all the same symptoms as you guys. Guess I just wait until there is some kind of fix, but for some reason i took my router offline and now I have no issue getting dc'd from vent, this could very well be that taking 2 other computers offline for the time created enough bandwidth where I wouldnt get dc'd . /shrug

03-08-2008, 07:08 AM	#25
Rukhtoi Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1	ping I live in Red Deer, Alberta, and am having the same problems, my latency jumps all over the place and well because of it i might as well not use it, my ping has been as high as 32509

06-13-2008, 08:40 PM	#30
Mox1972 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 8	I have a dumb question. Do all of you use routers? This is so frustrating I have all the same symptoms as you guys. Guess I just wait until there is some kind of fix, but for some reason i took my router offline and now I have no issue getting dc'd from vent, this could very well be that taking 2 other computers offline for the time created enough bandwidth where I wouldnt get dc'd . /shrug Last edited by Mox1972; 06-13-2008 at 08:51 PM.

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03-01-2008, 02:20 AM	#21
PhantomSr Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2	Just finished with every other thread on here and it looks like it's pretty obvious what the issue is and it's rather funny that it's popping up slowing all over and that after hearing about this over and over they keep creating the same issue. The problem with large ISP's is that the process for installing/updating is written by some guy at a desk that never sees the real world implementation. The Guy who sets it all up doesn't use is or think for himself, just copies what he was given. The people troubleshooting the device don't talk to the customers, and the people you talk to when you call in don't have a clue about any of the hardware. So here's what happens. You call with a problem.. you get some BS answer since the connection is working fine for everything but vent. Help desk guy goes on with his day and forgets you called. Repeat this bout 100 times a day. One of the analysts will clue in that he's heard about issues with vent a lot lately and ask higher up about it. It might then get to the next level that can look at the hardware. If they actually believe the help desk knows anything about IP traffic, they might look at it. If they do find the issue, they aren't authorized to change it anyway without going to the network planners to find out what kind of impact this will have on the network. Then they have to come up with a plan to make the necessary changes, analyze disruption caused by making the changes, and design a rollback plan if the changes fail or cause issues. Then this will get passed back to the guys who can make the changes and they'll plan to do it when impact is the smallest. Process is in place for a reason but it sure is a pain when it's something that affects you. And it drives everyone in the chain nuts to since it's quite likely a change that can be made by typing one or two lines into the traffic policies.

03-06-2008, 08:08 PM	#22
h8myboss Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2	I am here in Vancouver, B.C., use Shaw, and yes, ever since the switch to 3.0, I have been getting MASSIVE lag spikes in Vent, and only with Vent >> my gaming seems to be fine, which I am awful thankful for. Strange though, the problem only occurs when I am wired thru this fancy D-Link router. When I hardwire straight to the modem, the lag spikes stop and everything is fine. I have even gone into the router set up thingy (by entering an IP into the address bar of my browser), and checked to make sure everything was secure and the wireless function was turned off. Past that, I am too noobish to make any other changes in the router set up. This problem is very serious for me, because I lead a successful adult orientated gaming family of about 60 people, and they rely on me to get on every night to organize our events and discuss issues. It's a moral dampener too >> it really sucks not being able to talk with them after 6 years of being able to talk with everyone every night. I feel like an idiot after discovering this thread, because I have been blaming the lag on my roomie's router, and it's caused an assload of tension between us. I am emailing Shaw right now to report this issue. Hopefully they will take the hint that LOTS of gamers are having the same problem, get off their fat butts and do something about it, not just play the "oh it's not a problem on our end" card. H8MyBoss* Lords Of Death An FPS Gaming Family

03-07-2008, 01:30 AM	#24
wadesworld Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,934	ISP's almost always reclassify all customer traffic as normal priority (except peer-to-peer traffic, which gets low) when it comes into the network, unless they're a business customer paying a high rate for priority. If they didn't, every Torrent user out there would mark all their traffic as high priority.

03-22-2008, 08:22 PM	#27
Moondog Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1	Too bad I didn't see this post initially I could of stated what shaw was going to say. I have experienced this not with Ventrilo but with other programs. A few weeks ago I was even at work and the boss had left his torrent downloader on, the entire day it was so slow even FTP and the Internet were slowed down. I know I basically only download files when I am away from my computer. Shaw doesn't classify every packet as torrent or non torrent, so if they suspect you of downloading them your entire connection is gonna suck. Things that will increase your ping are: - Multiple users sharing same IP - Being on wireless - Downloading - ISP routing issues Just to expand on ISP routing issues, some times a 3rd party ISP is to blame for lag. Recently one of my websites hosted in phoenix was very laggy. Upon inspection I noticed Shaw had a fine ping, as did the hosting facility. There was a third company in the middle shaw was routing too that was experiencing problems. Took about a month to correct as well.

05-04-2008, 09:35 PM	#28
PhatKi Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1	I live in the Red Deer area and have been experiencing bizarre lag spikes and such after i download torrents and what not. This s really a frustrating thing when vent locks up and you hear 5 minutes of conversation at once.

05-05-2008, 01:54 AM	#29
MegaHz Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 9	It is a problem with traffic shaping equipment shaw is using and something Ventrilo changed about their packets in version 3. The Ventrilo 3 packet signature is looking like, and there for being treated as peer to peer traffic. if you get a hold of a vent 2 client and server and run it along side a vent 3 cient and server (same host location, same client location), you get no ping issues on the 2 server while the 3 server spikes to 32000 ping. If you contact shaw, ask them to escalate the issue up, so they can collect information on who all is having the problem. make sure someone in the call center didn't decide that there is nothing they can do to fix the issue and not even let a network engineer look at it. ask them to escalate it up.