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Old 02-02-2006, 06:12 PM   #11
wadesworld
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I addressed this in another thread, but what you're telling people to do is downright rude.
Telling people to encourage their guild to spend 5 minutes to reconfigure a server so that everyone can participate is rude?

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In fact, several guilds share it, and someone I don't know pays for it.
Fine. However, if they reconfigure for Speex, it will allow anyone in any guild to participate.

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You're assuming that they'll 'see the light' of speex being an arguably similar or even better setting than their GSM standard, that they'll all rush to download the latest Windows Vent client, and that they'll be more than happy to do it for the small handful (usually two or three people at most) of Mac users when they ask.
Windows users install new Vent versions all the time. It's really not the end of the world to them. When Flagship releases the final 2.3 Windows client, are they going to refuse to download it because it's too much trouble? Nope, they'll be upgraded the very day it's released, no complaints at all.

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You're assuming that these guildmates will even care.
I guess I'll be rude by saying if my guildmates don't care whether I can communicate or not, I'm in the wrong guild.

Look, I'm not saying that people are easy to convince. I'm not saying they're not resistant, usually for all the wrong reasons.

I am saying that Flagship has made no statements about GSM support. I am also saying that if you tell a guild that GSM is coming, they will NOT switch. Given the fact that no statements have been made, it makes more sense to encourage your guild to change.

Wade
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:08 PM   #12
Arisa
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Originally Posted by wadesworld
Telling people to encourage their guild to spend 5 minutes to reconfigure a server so that everyone can participate is rude?
When you're the only Mac user in your guild, yes. We you do not pay the bill for the server, yes. When others would rather not change, yes.


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Fine. However, if they reconfigure for Speex, it will allow anyone in any guild to participate.
I know this, you know this. The problem is, it isn't that easy. Certainly you're aware of how often Windows and Mac users clash, and all the 'joyous' commentary that comes from it -- why add more fuel to the fire ('Oh, you need something else now? Why don't you just use windows like everyone else?' being the least of it)?


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Windows users install new Vent versions all the time. It's really not the end of the world to them. When Flagship releases the final 2.3 Windows client, are they going to refuse to download it because it's too much trouble? Nope, they'll be upgraded the very day it's released, no complaints at all.
That may be so, considering how often Windows users install and reinstall things; but you can't tell me that Windows users don't get set in their ways with a particular version of a client and then refuse to upgrade. It isn't unthinkable, that's why sites like Old Version exist.

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I guess I'll be rude by saying if my guildmates don't care whether I can communicate or not, I'm in the wrong guild.
My guildmates care, but not all do. And yes, if they don't care, you probably are in the wrong guild; but when it can be extremely hard to find a worthwhile guild -- you take what you can get, especially when you're new.

And more to the point -- even though my Guildies care, it isn't as though it matters -- many other guilds share that sever, and for us to say "Change it" and the others to not want it to happen... it's not going to happen, no matter how often or how kindly we ask.

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Look, I'm not saying that people are easy to convince. I'm not saying they're not resistant, usually for all the wrong reasons.
A lot is inferred by what people don't say, Wade. You're stating "have your guild change the server" as though it were so easy. Many people will go to their guild head, ask them to change, and then be outright refused. Many others will ask, and be told something similar to what I heard -- "We can't change it, we're not in charge. We aren't the only ones on this server. You are in the minority."

And before you suggest, no -- it isn't practical to rent or run ones own server just because you can't get your Guild to change theirs. Not everyone has the money for it, and not everyone has the setup to run one and still carry on gaming, either.

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I am saying that Flagship has made no statements about GSM support. I am also saying that if you tell a guild that GSM is coming, they will NOT switch. Given the fact that no statements have been made, it makes more sense to encourage your guild to change.

Wade
I don't have to tell them GSM is coming -- they assume it enough as is by the fact that the Mac client is a prototype. They don't need me saying "GSM is unlikely" for them to make up their minds. It is not their problem, and because of that they don't pay attention. They don't run a Mac, they run Windows -- they pay attention to what effects them. Not being able to hear me while we run an instance is a minor inconvenience to them because I can still type.

They're content to say, 'Wait and see.' We can encourage until we're blue in the face, but that doesn't change the fact that Flagship gave us no real choice. We still are reliant upon someone else to do something for us, just so we can talk to those around us.

The fact that there isn't any competition to Vent seems to be making Flagship rather complacent -- Yes, I said it. In my opinion, if Flagship actually cared whether or not Mac users had a proper, working client, it would have been addressed by now. I know programmes take time to create, to troubleshoot, and to flesh out. I know that like anything, a good job requires time and effort.

There's certainly been the time, but we've got nothing showing us of any effort except a slightly less buggy Prototype release that still precludes us from joining our friends and Guildies without having to ask for special treatment -- because that's what it is. You're asking us to request a change, just for us. In a perfect world, that would be fine. It isn't, and it's not.

On an additional note, I'm not trying to gripe at you, or put you on the hot seat. If I thought I could get a response out of Flagship, I'd address my commentary in that direction. However, you seem quite keen to respond and try to lend a hand, so you're apparently the only one around to direct these posts to. I respect the time you've taken to reply to me, and if I come off as too harsh, please do let me know; as it isn't my intent.
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Old 02-02-2006, 08:30 PM   #13
Ur-Jack
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At the end of the day, waht do you have to lose by asking for the modification to the server? Worst they can do is say no. You never know, they may agree!

On another note, isn't it worth making this speex compatible variant of the Windows client the main windows client on the downloads page instead of keeping the current one which doesnt support the codec change?
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Old 02-03-2006, 12:07 AM   #14
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Because there are a few more things I want to add before making it the mainstream release. Not that this would actually help the acceptance to solve the Speex sound problem that Beta.3 fixes.

While it is called Beta it is production quality. There are no real major changes, just additions like the G15 support, the speex codec enhancements and a few others list here: http://www.ventrilo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10208

Other then those it's still the same quality as 2.3.0
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